You missed Faisal Bodi's denounciation of the flag:
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/faisal_bodi/2006/06/there_will_be_no_flag_above_my.html

It is of course a symbol of islamophobia:
"The cross, and the three lions for that matter, are Christian symbols, adopted by the crusaders for a historical episode that not only brought immense suffering to Muslims and eastern Christians alike, but which created the jaundiced lens through which much of the west would view Islam down the centuries."

"The cross, and the three lions for that matter, are Christian symbols, adopted by the crusaders for a historical episode that not only brought immense suffering to Muslims and eastern Christians alike, but which created the jaundiced lens through which much of the west would view Islam down the centuries."

Whereas the Star & Cresent has only been used for peaceful purposes I suppose.

What is it about lefty intellectuals that make them such iconoclasts?

Interesting that the suffering of the Jews during the crusades always gets left out of this narrative (thousands killed by troops rampaging throught the Rhineland and in the Holy Land too).

Might on reasonably assume that this has more to do with the fact that Jews have no particular wish to up the ante with Christians (at least not so far as the crusades are concerned) whereas militant Islam (and its SWP type camp followers) do?

This is a true story: Several years ago I was watching The Last Night of the Proms live on German public television. The German commenter apologized (!) for the many national flags on display. But on the other hand, he added in a conciliatory tone, there are also some EU flags. You know, the good kind.

"Interesting that the suffering of the Jews during the crusades always gets left out of this narrative"

The Jews and the Crusades

"A secondary task was to rid the world of as many non-Christians as possible - both Muslims and Jews. The Crusaders gave the Jews two choices in their slogan: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!" 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed as the first Crusade passed through. Some Jewish writers refer to these events as the "first holocaust." Once the army reached Jerusalem and broke through the city walls, they slaughtered all the inhabitants that they could find (men, women, children, newborns). After locating about 6,000 Jews holed up in the synagogue, they set the building on fire; the Jews were burned alive. The Crusaders found that about 30,000 Muslims had fled to the al Aqsa Mosque. The Muslim were also slaughtered without mercy.

The Roman Catholic church taught that going to war against the "Infidels" was an act of Christian penance. If a believer was killed during a crusade, he would bypass purgatory, and be taken directly to heaven. By eliminating what might be many millennia of torture in Purgatory, many Christians were strongly motivated to volunteer for the crusades. "After pronouncing a solemn vow, each warrior received a cross from the hands of the pope or his legates, and was thenceforth considered a soldier of the Church." 3

These mass killings were repeated during each of the 8 additional crusades until the final, 9th, crusade in 1272 CE. Both Christians and Muslims believed that they were fighting on God's side against Satan; they believed that if they died on the battlefield they would be given preferential treatment in the Christian Heaven or the Muslim Paradise. Battles were fought with a terrible fierceness and a massive loss of life. Over a 200 year period, perhaps 200,000 people were killed. The Muslim warrior Salah a-Din subsequently recaptured Jerusalem from the Christians.

By the end of the crusades, most European Christians believed the unfounded blood-libel myths -- the rumor that Jews engaged in human sacrifice of Christian children. A long series of Christian persecutions of the Jews continued in Europe and Russia into the 20th century. They laid the foundation for the Nazi Holocaust."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_cru1.htm

Which is just one of the reasons that the only flag I fly possesses a Star of David and not a cross.

Thank you, Joshua.

The Crusades,of course, were a response to violent Muslim territorial aggression accompanied by mind-boggling cruelty. Faisal Bodi willl have to live with that because he and his co-religionists are not going to change it. Like it or not, even though Christianity is somewhat dormant at the moment, we are a Christian country with a strong Judaic influence. We have no Islamic influence in our civilisation, and we won't be having any, thanks.

Well, who are we to argue with so disinterested and rigorous a source of historical insight as "religious tolerance dot org?"

The lurid descriptions of the Crusader misbehavior often date from 19th century anti-clerical writers who exaggerated for emphasis. The Christians of Constantiople suffered from the wily interventions of Venice which convinced crusaders of the Fourth Crusade to sack the city The damage was immense and the Venicians thereafter ruled the Mediterranian. The crusades damaged everybody, not least the crusaders themselves, many of whom never made it home.

Okay people the Crusades trump card has been played. Please stop advocating your pro-flag positions and resume wallowing in 900 years of collective guilt. That is all.

Why would we feel guilty? If we hadn't fought those suckers we'd be wearing burqas, having genital butchery perpetrated on us, as well as "honour" killings, being sold off in marriage for money, being forced to incestuosly marry first cousins, be married off aged 9, only be allowed to inherit half as much as a man, be stoned to death for committing adultery if we got raped, see our brothers hanged for being born homosexual, etc. No thanks. I don't feel guilty about a thing, and I think England's national flag is bold and bracing.

Let's look at this logically. Today, we look at someone who flies a Nazi swastika as being severely anti-social to say the least. Whatever honor was to be found in the trenches (for there is honor on both sides in every war), it was manifestly outweighed by the evil abive them. What the Wehrmacht did was barbaric for its own time, and the swastika will never stand for anything other than the worst of National Socialism. The flag and its murderous ideals are synonymous.

The flag of England does indeed stand for the crusades. But it also stands for the England that led the world in abolishing the slave trade, the England that stood alone against Hitler, and the England that gave up her colonies at the negotiating table rather than on the battlefield. Indeed, to the degree that the barbarism of the Crusades is now regarded as uncivilized, it is in no small part due to England's conduct and policies in the centuries that followed. These must all be weighed against the Crusades, which the rest of Europe participated in just as enthusiastically.

If you want to make the argument that one past crime, as judged by present standards, render a historic flag untouchable, then we shall have to rid ourselves of all flags, including those of the EU and UN. If that is your argument then be honest about it.

Well then. It is certainly nice to see that the US is not burdened with all the left wingnuts. Fly on!

Why would real Christians ever persecute Jews on the basis of current worldly fads, rumors, politics, the word of their fellow 'man'? Their instruction book, the Bible - the inspired Word of G_d - says Jews are the chosen people, and that Christians are to pray for both the Jewish people and for the nation of Israel, land promised the Jews by G_d.

The Word - the Bible - is the truth, to them, and it was the truth during the Crusades as it was in all the centuries before and after.

Ann Coulter is right about the tactics of the revisionist historians, profs, pols, elites who hype unrepresentative individuals, groups to twist reality to suit their agenda when they can't win fairly in the public square with their failed policies.

The young girls who whipped up hysteria in a small town named Salem with the help of a weak pastor were used for centuries to smear all Christians by non-Christian writers and actors and politicians, just as Fred Phelps, former Dem politician and lawyer who condemns US troops and America and gays at the funerals of American heroes - most of whom face real terror with the help of Their G_d and join to serve at His calling - is held up as an example of midwestern Baptists, hyped by the modern press in America as a 'real' Christian though his own words and deeds prove otherwise.

Real Christians support the Jews. They always did. They always will.

Interesting that the fact that most of the Middle East that was part of the Roman Empire was Christian,even more interesting are all the other ancient religions such as the Zoroastrians are air brushed out of history.That great civilisations reigned thousands of years before the birth of Mohammed,but somehow the seventh century is the year zero.
Odd that the Roman province of Hispania,rich and prosperous,only has a history dating from the Moors.
Perhaps there should be more history lessons in school.

Amm, I'm flying it on my car in Canada because it's the World Cup you moron!

the snob

We don't have to weigh anything against anything. That flag is our ancient symbol. If someone is insulted by it they can remove themselves from our country, though in reality we know the 'insult' in the flag exists only in the heads of middle class liberals. If it's too racist for Harker and too Christian for Faisal Bodie then they know where th airport is.

Every word of what Pete_London wrote: ENDORSED!

The misconception is that,if one runs our flag down the flagpole there will be and absence of flags,there won't, somebody will run theirs up instead and we will have to salute that.

Ron Brick - Chilling. It's already happening. Chilling.

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粉领一族
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百万新娘
天国的嫁衣
光辉岁月
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豪杰春香
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粉领一族
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