Nothing? The Hammers have qualified for Europe. Tell us what Spurs have done.

"in a state of total depression about anything political." Good to know it's not just me then.

I've been scouring my atlas to try and find somewhere to escape to. Chile seems like a good bet. At least it's as far away from 'western liberal values' as it is possible to get, and I don't think many islamicists have made it as far as there yet. The wines are good too!

Any one else want to join me?

To add to the gloom, how about Red Ken and his creepy gang of useful idiots feting Hugo Chávez? Precisely how he differs from the grisly old Latin American dictators that Harold Pinter et al. opposed in earlier years is hard to see (apart from the fact the death squads seem to be absent, at least so far). I can certainly see why you've resiled from the Left: the pong of hypocrisy over there you could cut with a knife.

Luniversal, are you kidding?

"...before our unassimilable coloured and/or non-Christian minorities are bred out, paid to go away, confined to safe ghettoes or at least indigenised culturally."

In my time in England (I was one of the dirt furriners), I found that by far the most unpleasant part of my stay was people like you. I teach in a township school in Cape Town, the kids dream of moving to England or America. A lot of them are the heads of their households because of AIDS. You obviously know what an enormous difference even the most meanial job in England would make to their lives and for their siblings who would get checks in the mail. Your complete indifference to the plight of people like this makes me a little queasy.

Stuart,
Very kind of you to offer our nation as some kind of workhouse for the worlds poor,but don't you think tha South Africa with all its possibilties and wealth should actually attend to its own citizen's welfare? SA is a far bigger country than this, with great natural resources,what exactly are you doing wrong?
It is not very comforting to think uyou might be adding to our AIDS figures.

I notice Luniversal's comment has vanished.

I wasn't just offering your nation, I was offering all nations.

What is china doing wrong? Any half decent government should be able to eliminate mass poverty in 5 years. 10% economic growth a year!? Pathetic.

There is of course no shortage of material detailing the benefits of immigration. I suggest a quick look at Gary Beckers blog, or perhaps Bred DeLongs. Becker focuses on the benefits gained by America due to immigration. That's swell, but not my concern. My point was simply the enormous benefits to the immigrants themselves and their families back home. Do you think this is unimportant? Free immigration has costs, but to ignore these benefits is callous.

Luniversal has probably been banned by Stephen. We banned him - I assume it is a he - from Samizdata due to his racism, rudeness and general vileness.

Stephen, I know how you feel. The Tory Party as SDP Mark 2: I think that is dead-on target. I wonder how long Tories will put up with Cameron's vapid posturing if the poll rankings don't really improve or if the government enters a period of relative tranquility.

You obviously know what an enormous difference even the most meanial job in England would make to their lives and for their siblings who would get checks in the mail.

I understand that immigration can bring benefits to the recipient country, but are we supposed to base an immigration system on the fact that there are poor people out there that would benefit?

Most of the world is poorer than us, are we to let them all in?

If South Africa gave Capitalism a try instead of sticking with socialism, it could provide jobs for all its citizens without them having to leave their home country.

Yes, I deleted the comment to which some of you are referring. It contained a racist comment, which I will not allow on my site.

"but are we supposed to base an immigration system on the fact that there are poor people out there that would benefit?"

Well... I think that doing things that benefit people is good. I think that battling disease in Africa is an excellent reason for Bill Gates to give away billions of dollars (incidentally at great and precisely quantifiable cost to himself). As I mentioned before the benefits of moving to a rich, democratic country are enormous (in addition to increased income there are huge benefits to living in a country where you are relatively safe, contracts you enter into are enforced etc. Efforts have been made to quantify these benefits here) so that is good reason to do it. As you say there are benefits for the recipient country too, so the question is about the costs incurred. I’ve noticed that people normally point out that the wages of unskilled workers are slightly depressed (of course new technology depresses them more and trade does too, you seem keen on capitalism, why not rail against those?). To my mind that is not a major cost and laughable considering the benefits. So far I’ve assumed place of birth is somehow morally relevant which I dispute (seriously, why do Brits have the inalienable right not to have their wages depressed by 8%? Place of birth is entirenly arbitrary). Choosing not to do great good at little expense may be justifiable, but it’s not terribly admirable.

Again, I’m not picking on England; I’m picking on all countries, particularly rich ones.

"If South Africa gave Capitalism a try instead of sticking with socialism, it could provide jobs for all its citizens without them having to leave their home country."

Wonderful advice! I would think that readers of Stephens blog might have more sympathy for victims of incompetent governments (ignoring the fact that we are lucky that government is not more populist and that even with capitalism mass poverty will not be eliminated overnight and that the majority of the population was systematically denied education for generations).

Stuart, I agree with your sentiments in theory, its just that in practise there are so many poor people that trying to help them through open immigration is ultimately futile.

something is not worthwhile only if it eliminates world poverty. Helping individuals is a good thing.

Bill Gates will not eliminate disease but I wouldn't call his actions futile. Improving the lives of millions of people is a good thing. Individual lives count. The fact that problems will remain and cost will be incurred shouldn't obscure this fact.

It's possible to make a lot of money out of immigration by charging an entrance fee, Gary Becker outlines how here.

"I wasn't just offering your nation, I was offering all nations."
Stuart they are not yours to offer.
Why not just get South Africa right?

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6699 you must do something about that stutter.

"Stuart they are not yours to offer."

Thanks for pointing that out.

"Why not just get South Africa right?"

Genius!

Human beings are self-centered. We look out to promote our own self-interest, not that of others (except perhaps close family). Sometimes we will help others, provided it doesn't cost us much or anything, and with the added bonus that we can feel good about ourselves. But as soon as there is the possibility that it could cost us something, then well, who cares? It's not arbitrary that we were lucky enough to be born into a situation with food, health care, stability and education, and others were not. Perhaps Europeans and Americans should drop the talk about actually wanting to do something meaningful and revolutionary for people in third world countries. The fact that immigration could be a way to reduce the divide between first and third world countries is unimportant when compared to our own self-interest and zenophobia, so let's not even investigate the possibility.

Essentially, borders are artificial, imposed on people by powerful leaders. It has nothing to do with who people are, the value of their lives and the land that they live on.

Fortunately there is also evidence that open immigration could bring some benefits as Stuart pointed out.

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