Am I alone in being struck by the lack of attention this has received in the media, as well as the scant attention to Ian McCartney's 'Fagin' remarks? Two senior Labour ministers come out with stuff like this and the BBC never mentions it. Yet when an obscure Tory mp makes a joke about chinese cockle pickers they were leading their main news bulletins with the story and newspapers were splashing it over their front page.

Er, what exactly is the problem here? O'Brien doesn't use the words 'Jew', 'Zionist', 'cabal', or the like; and he refers to Howard in the latter's capacity as opposition leader, would-be triumphant new occupant of number 10 come May. Is the suggestion on your part really that a politician shouldn't go electioneering to a certain section of the population, namely Muslims who see being Muslim as a key part of their identity? Should such electioneering really only be left to the oh-so-delightful Galloway/SWP front, who in the odd consituency will be a real threat to the sitting Labour MP in a few months time? Apologies for all the rhetorical questions; I just really am curious regarding what the fuss is about.

Well, Ross, Mike O'Brien's comments have hardly been ignored. They were the splash in the Mail one day last week. And one of the central issues, that Labour is trying to buy Muslim votes with its new anti-religious hatred legislation, has been pretty extensively aired.

There was something distastefully craven about O'Brien's article, no question. But anti-semitic? Not sure. Yes, he's trying to stir up Muslim feeling against the Tories but wouldn't he have been asking exactly the same questions, and for the same reasons, if Hague or Duncan Smith were still party leader?

One credible meaning of his words is 'Given what we know about Michael Howard's policies, what can we expect him to do for Muslims if he becomes PM?" which is a perfectly reasonable thing for a politician to ask.

I think there is no other way to construe this article. O'Brien is a foul mouthed little weasel. He should be sacked immesidately for peddling this racist filth. Whoever made the point about the BBC and the cockle pickers was bang on. I think Peter Hitchens made a point about the weasel today in his article...

Look I would have been inclined to give O'Brien the doubt, but you look at another mp he singled out in the article, the Liberal Democrat Evan Harris. Now why would someone single out Harris, an relatively obscure politician who is one of the very few lib-dems who isn't even on the front bench (he resigned a year ago to look after his terminally ill girlfriend). Harris's only significance is that he is the most prominent jewish Lib-Dem MP.

You'd also have to question why no (jewish or otherwise) members of the labor party have come out on this issue either. Suggests to me that for many of them stamping out rascism and anti semtism have ceased to be principles and just become means to an end - getting elected.

Lady Liberty’s message to the victims of those who want to get elected:

http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/269/

I would ask fellow commenters to imagine if let's say someone suggested that say no Jews should vote for Labour because they are beholden to Muslims. What do you think the reaction in the MSM and Labour Party would be? I am guessing whomever said it would be at least run out of any leadership position.

Yes and if O'Brien had said that no Muslim should vote Tory because they are beholden to Jews, then he should be drummed out of the party, no question. But he didn't. The question is whether religion/anti-Semitism was the unspoken message of what he was saying. On first reading I didn't think it was. However having read elucidations here about Evan Harris and about Tory policy on Turkey, faith schools etc, I'm inclined to wonder. But on the face of what O'Brien wrote, it seems to me impossible to be certain.

I thought that the Government said that Turkey wasn't a Muslim country.

More virulent anti-Semitism from the Labour Party; this time from verminous little toad, Ian McCartney.

Tory anger over Fagin jibe

Monday, 01 Mar 2004 14:39

Labour Party chairman Ian McCartney has defended comments he made comparing shadow chancellor Oliver Letwin to Charles Dickens' character Fagin.

Mr McCartney angered Jewish leaders and the Conservative Party when he linked Mr Letwin to the greedy villain in Oliver Twist.

Speaking at the Scottish Labour Party's annual conference in Inverness, Mr McCartney attacked Tory spending plans, calling Mr Letwin, the descendent of Jewish refugees from Ukraine, "Slasher Letwin".

"What would life under Slasher Letwin look like? No Oliver Twist, this man - more of a Fagin," Mr McCartney said

"This 21st-century Fagin will pick the pockets of Scotland's pensioners by abolishing the pension credit and then plan for a new generation of poor pensioners by abolishing the second state pension."

Jewish leaders have condemned the Labour chairman's comments as irresponsible and offensive. Friends of Mr Letwin said he is very proud of his background and claimed it was insensitive of Labour to use it against him.

Lord Janner, the Labour peer and chairman of the Holocaust Education Trust, said he was "amazed" by Mr McCartney's comments and Mr Letwin's spokesman said: "It is sad that Labour have used this character in such a way and refuse to debate our policies in a more serious manner."

However, Mr McCartney has defended his remarks, stating: "I have spent all my life campaigning against racism and anti-Semitism. No one who reads the remarks in context could interpret them in that way. It is simply a reference to the Tory policy on scrapping the pension credit. This was a comment about Oliver Letwin's politics and the Tory Party's policies."

There have been growing concerns over the re-emergence of anti-Semitism in Britain recently.

Last week a row erupted in the Commons and the media after it was revealed that Conservative MP Ann Winterton made a joke about the Chinese cocklers who died tragically at Morecambe Bay during a dinner. Ms Winterton has had the party whip withdrawn for refusing to apologise for her comments, deemed "completely unacceptable" by party leader Michael Howard.

http://www.politics.co.uk/party-politics/labour-party/tory-anger-over-fagin-jibe

The comments do appear dodgy.

It's a growing trend. Melanie Phillips the other day complained that non-Muslims in Britain were Dhimmis, or second-class citizens in a Muslim-controlled country. Imagine the furore if someone had said a similarly obnoxious comment about Jews controlling Britain.

The only problem is this site linked to her for those comments. In fact they were her article about O'Briens comments.

"I should have written that all bar one of those items are Tory party policy."

OK.

"So the only construction that can be put on Mike O'Brien's words is that somehow Mr Howard will not do what his party has pledged to do, such as aiming "to help Palestine" or "really fight for Turkey, a Muslim country, to join the EU". And why might that be?"

But democratic politicians electionioneering to 'minorities' who identify themselves as such make 'intimations' all the time. Thus, George Bush when campaigning will 'pander' to the Bible Belt (note: I neither assert nor deny any moral equivalence regarding different minorities' particular emotional 'pulls'). IMO (and of course, it is only my opinion), those calling for O'Brien's head have an overly naive take on actually-existing liberal democracy, liberal democracy in its historical practice. For whenever there is a disaffected 'minority' group, calculated ambiguity towards its (possibly unsavoury) emotional 'pulls' may well be a necessary instrument, in the long run, for that group's eventual incorporation (read: dissolution) into the body politic at large.

Chris the difference is that this is a created minority that didn't seem to exist 10 years ago. I see it more as if Laobr are trying to create a "bankable" minority - like the black vote for the democrats in the US. This is I think a regressive, not progressive attitude.

Firstly, as a Labour party member, I think the whole article was ill-judged and is perfectly open to criticism. And it's pretty silly - the question of legislation to ban religious hatred has clearly been under discussion for many months, and was not decided because one particular pressure group asked for it - it was a daft claim in an ill-judged and misguided article.

But I do not see any evidence that his comments were deliberately anti-semitic. A great deal of Labour's attacks on the Tories personalise them around Michael Howard - for perfectly understandable political reasons. It was Melanie Philips who made the link between these comments and Michael Howard's jewish heritage, and these have been picked up by commentators who may well have been influenced by her initial views.

Is it not the case that seeing a slur where none is intended is just the kind of action that you and other commentators would criticise Muslim leaders for in other circumstances? There is enough for you to have a go at in what this misguided individual actually said without having to put a different spin on it, I would have thought.

It does seem very odd that he uses Evan Harris as his other target. Assuming that O'Brien was innocently mistaken when he incorrectly refering to Mr Evans as Lib Dem spokesman (for what?), I don't think he's ever covered the Home Affairs portfolio. Why should Mr O'Brien pick out Evan Harris rather than one of the Lib Dem spokesman who actually speak on the subject?

Giles - 2 things:
(1) Whatever your or my thoughts on the substance of 'Muslims' as a conscious minority, the fact is this: since the Iraq war, wards and the odd consituency with a sizeable poor Muslim population have gone from Labour 'bankers' to Lib Dem or Respect possibles. Hence the loss of Leicester South to the Lib Dems last year (with Respect getting %13), and the narrow hold of Birmingham Hodge Hill with a greatly reduced majority.
(2) As for the charge that the US Democratic Party deliberately created a 'bankable minority' for itself - what, like by ending the Jim Crow system in the south by federal decree in the 1960s? The cheeky bastards!

What's more boring, Jewish self-obsession or Jewish persecution mania?

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