It will be a cold cold day in Hell before I ever vote for the Euro. Why, because it is simply NOT democratic. I want to have the right to VOTE for the government of this nation and not be dictated to by a bunch of self important bureaucrats in the 'Belgian Empire' who I have no real control over as a voter. People in Britain should have the democratic right to say "No" to anything our elected representative government does, and vote them out of power if we disagree with their policies or any rules and regulations they bestow upon us. We have little if any say on what goes off in Brussels.

The British people should have the democratic right to elect our government and our elected government should CONTROL our own economy, NOT the bloody Euroweenies.

You don't need to join the Euro in order to trade with Europe. We have Free Trade with Europe, just like the Norwegians do. We do a hell of a lot of trading with America but we don't have to be the 51st State in order to do so.

We are the oldest and most stable parliamentary democracy in the world, and as the saying goes, "if it ain't boke, don't fix it".

Britain needs the Euro like we need a hole in the head.

I know the meek shall inherit the earth, but Belgium?

Far be it for me to defend Will Hutton, but in saying that euro scepticism "is fed by the new sense of nationalism" he is attacking nationalism as ugly, not euro-scepticism per se. Euro scepticism is fed by a number of sources, of which nationalism is one. He is not saying that all euro sceptics are ardent Le Pen style nationalists.

The more objectionable part of Hutton's statement is his lumping together of Le Pen syle nationalism with nationalism in a broader sense. Nationalism can be a force for good (civic pride, upholding of worthy traditions, a source for a sense of community) as well as bad (xenephobia, racism).

Nearly there, Matthew, but not quite. Actually, euro-scepticism flows in very large measure from the desire for self-governance. And nationalism? You did a bit better there. But you might have noted that it is informed by love of one's own kind and country, and all people everywhere practise that. As for that strange and rather modern curse, racism, what can one say? In its modern, ubiquitous usage it is no more than an injunction on native European peoples everywhere speaking against apparently permanent racial change to their homeland. But what do you expect them to do? Surely not vote Liberal Democrat?

I would not wish voting Liberal Democrat on anyone! But permanent racial change has occured in the past 50 years and my response is - so what? The real issue is when sub cultural groups form and threaten harmony and/ or cause exisisting populations feel foreign in their own land. Blacks in Britain should feel more British than black, and existing Britons should also feel comfortable in seeing them as British. Black pride, multiculturalism etc is at fault here, but so is the Le Pen style nationalism that equates culture with race.

Is it so difficult to understand that our euro-politicians and those overpaid bureaucrats in Brussels are steering Europe and all the nations involved into a cathastrophy? But people are blindfolded by the stupid TV-manipulation of all kind. Who is going to pay the bill?

As Belgian I must object to this steady condescending tone, where comments are posted regarding the euro, Brussels as bureaucratic centre of Europe etc. I suggest Britain -as the oldest and 'most stable' parliamentary democracy in the world- tackles it's own issues, like the latest surge of imperialism being sending troops to Irak -get the hell out of there!- before making ANY comments on other countries. If you all feel that the Euro is a bad thing and you want to keep on being your excentric, hooliganistic selves (nice those clichés, aren't they?) , by all means do so on your island. Stop whining to the rest of Europe because you don't want in.

I agree with wat Jaxx says.

The British prejudices and the outright hate towards Belgium are ridiculous. It's been going on for years now in the British press, and I am getting really tired of it.

The European Parliament is located in Brussels, that's true, but it is not synonymous with the "Belgian Empire", as one of the posters put it. Belgians usually do not have the illusion of grandeur the British still seem to have (the colonial era is definitely over, by the way, did you notice? O no, of course not, you're too busy burying your head in the Iraqi desert sands...)

The European Parliament hosts representatives from every European country, and yes, we do have European elections, so it's not as undemocratic as you might think. All the usual political views are also represented, ranging from socialists over liberals to conservatives (probably, the terminology will differ somewhat with the British terminology, but in fact, it's really the same).

The difference is: when you are part of the European Union, you're not the only one. That means that you only have partial control over who gets elected in Brussels, because all the other European citizens have the right to vote as well. You could consider that as an exercise in tolerance and understanding for the views of other European people, when they happen to see things in a different way.

I hope all goes well on your holy island.

I disagree with Pipo and Jaxx,

I am Belgian but I do understand that when people mention Brussels or Belgium it is effectively as the place of the European Parliament and not directed to the Belgian.

However saying that we are all europeans and we elect our local representative to the European election like it is happening in every election is not quite right.
1) the political party are not represented everywhere as in national election(well at the exception probably of Belgium).

2) Compare to National elections we do not know usually how the other countries are thinking as we do not read the same newspapers, speak the same language or watch the same TV programme, of course again Belgium is different as it is already splitted between 2 communities and 2 languages.

3) People still do believe that national parliament are the most important one. Most of the Europeans do not know who their local representative in the European parliament is but most of them do know who their local representative at their national parliament is. On the same point nationality is still predominant over feeling european, we just have to look at sports area to see that our nationality is still the most improtant, but also the last merger between Sanofi and Aventis, Aventis wanted Novartis but the French government made everything possible to build the merger with Sanofi and although Aventis is franco-german the french are now claiming as the merger making it one of the biggest in the world and a success for France, when the Germans are not really happy.

4) Europeans living in a different country as their origin do not yet have the same right as americans as the only right they have is to vote to Europeans and local election but not for National Parliament one, when this is the one which will still mostly influence them in term of taxation, education, health and security,... . As well europeans living in a different European country cant have free access to schooling in their languages and cant "transport" their pension.

5) responsibility: I don't know if by voting differently at the european election I will be able to change the government (i.e. the commission) ...well again this is maybe different for Belgium where the formation of government is a complicated system not straightforwardly linked to the party (but several party and the number of combination is enormous) having 50%+1 member of parliament

So saying that european elections are the same as local one is a little bit naive.... or belgian

@Renaud...

No, I'm not saying European and national elections are completely the same, and really, the situation is not all that different. belgian people also have the feeling that they do not really know the people that represent them in European Parliament.

I think the main reason for this is a lack of coverage by the media in European countries: whereas a very large part of the Belgian laws are actually voted on the European level and consequently applied by the "lower" Belgian government, the TV news still acts as if we are living in the old Europe of completely independent nation states (speaking from a Belgian point of view). My conclusion: if the press complains about the "invisibility" of the European government and about "bureaucrats" of all sorts, part of the responsibility lies with the press itself. They have a duty to MAKE the European level more visible.

And of course, me and Jaxx were mainly reacting against the hate against "Belgium" and the "Belgians". I understand Euroscepticism, but targeting one specific country and its inhabitants because of the international organisations it is a host for, is completely unfair and insulting. If you're looking for bureaucracy, you could just as well turn to Washington DC. And why don't I ever hear the British laughing about Switzerland? (Probably because the Swiss don't believe in Europe either.)

If the British ask why the rest of the world hates them, they could perhaps ask themselves when THEY started to hate the rest of the world. Belgium is an easy target (oh yes, of course we're child murderers, paedophiles, naive, silly, stupid, whatever you say, who is going to prove you wrong if I don't react to it?).

"oh yes, of course we're child murderers, paedophiles, naive, silly, stupid"

Don't forget the anti-Semitism. According to a recent "opinion survey of adults in ten European countries," carried out on behalf of the ADL, a quite incredible 35% of Belgians are anti-Semitic. This puts you in the number two spot, just behind Germany.

And before your paranoia gets totally out of control, I can assure you that when the vast majority of Brits think about Belgium, wonderful chocolate, excellent cuisine, weekend-breaks, and free-loading politicians and bureaucrats are really the only things that spring to mind. I know it's all very depressing, but it's also a sad fact of life that your nation's immense contribution to the the worlds of art, literature, science, music and contemporary culture are completely overlooked. The thing is, you're not loved or hated in the UK; you simply, for the most part, don't exist.

Holly wrote:

"The thing is, you're not loved or hated in the UK; you simply, for the most part, don't exist."

Bump...!

Got it in one.

People in Britain don't hate Belgians. For the most part Belgium is about as relevant to us as say... Luxembourg. I doubt if most people here could find Belgium on a map even if there was a prize in it for them. We simply don't want to be DICTATED to by a bunch of "Eurocracts" living and working in Brussels. WE British will decide what WE do in Britain, not Europe. That, ladies and gentlemen is called Democracy.

And as for some Belgian saying "Imperialist" Britain should "get the hell out of Iraq". You would have thought that some people would be in favour of toppling a mass murdering dictator and his psycho mafia family in an attempt to create a elected government that hopefully over a period of time will make significant baby-steps towards a stable Arab democracy. You would have thought some people who enjoy the benefits of living in free and open societies would be in favour of defeating fascist tyranny and a "regime change" towards secularism, humanist values and democracy, but obviously not.

And one final note... You can stick your profoundly undemocratic Euro where the sun doesn't shine.

As I said before. It will be a cold day in Hell before I ever vote for it. It's a democratic step backwards, not forwards.

As usual President Jacques Chirac is talking out his trou du cul and I would like to offer a brief retort to his recent anti British outburst. As a renowned international chef from the old school of British cooking (under the tutelage of my mum Chef de Cuisine Pat Coyle at the Battersea Park Staff Canteen Polytechnic, in those day's a hot bed of culinary art) I am especially expert to refute such diabolical affronts to British food and its indigenous cow underclass. Having myself climbed the heights of chefdom, winning Dunlop's converted 3 Stars for my authentic Pie and Mash main course with Jellied Ells on the side. I can with some authority discard to the dustbin of history the French myth that France is the epicentre of good food, cooking prowess and disease free bovine. Je dire les Bollocks!

During the Middle Ages, British cuisine was renown for its simplicity and fresh ingredients. It led the world in farming technique and was self sufficient in providing not only its own population with gastronomic delights like, haggis, bubble and squeak, black sausage and the pork pie, but also as a major exporter of preserved cow parts, dumplings and other mysterious culinary produce to the then known world. This self sufficiency in nosh was instrumental in enabling Britain to later colonise the world thereby providing humanity with the English language, an independent judiciary and property rights that led to what we now call democracy and the free world.

However, there was a slight decline in British culinary prowess during the late 18th century which was compounded by the effects of British rationing during two World Wars. On both occasions, France's military forces decided to discard their non repeating rifles and capitulate post haste to join Germany in forming the embryotic European Economic Community. Up until this time and into the 1970's, the food was so bad in France that Charles De Gaulle, who never got over Britain saving France in two world wars, relented his veto on British chefs and in 1973 allowed Britain to join the European community as a fully paid up member of the EEC. This paved the way for the French farmer to parasitically attach itself to the British tax payers payroll enabling France once again to have someone else pay its way.

With Britain's inclusion in the EEC, Europe saw Britain once again defend world democracy by demolishing the Argentine military machine and its unelected junta when in 1982 the Argie Bargies were silly enough to invade the Falklands. This further continuation of British military success in unwinnable wars led to an influx of renowned British chefs being appointed Head de Cuisine in all the best Hotels in France and most other European hotels of any consequence. It was about this time that the French Government introduced the 'Saucier Francais' which enabled France to win back some respectability in the culinary world by concocting sauces as an art form to mask the taste of the merde they continue to serve up as food.

During the Mad Cow crises of the 1990's France banned British cows. This led to a general European up rising amongst the bovine population and European cows started to question their role in the world and the meaning of life. The French ban was a great step forward for British bovine culture as British mad cows strove to assimilate humanistically into every day life and blend into society as a whole. Great strides were made by the British farmer with many first time initiatives like, spa's, TV's and window curtains in the barns. With the lack of British beef in France the local veal producers went into melt down. French calves became very confident that they would now reach adulthood and so roamed the French countryside at night in gangs, smoking and drinking wine, mugging the local sheep and becoming very naughty and unruly. These 'Les punk cow's', as they were known in France, spent most days watching American hamburger commercials and conspiring to one day be free and to work for McDonalds. Fearing Les Revolution MkII, the French Government, as its wont in all things of moral consequence, capitulated and allowed British beef once more into the country.

In Britain today there is more interest in food than there has been since France last did anything that really mattered. To celebrity chefs like myself, the Two Fat Ladies and Jamie Oliver leading the drive towards raising the standard of British cuisine to further heights of deliciousness, Jacques Chirac's remarks are but water off a duck a' la orange and collectively we fart in his general direction! In 2005 British cuisine has reached new heights with 600 leading world food critics naming 14 British restaurant's among the 50 best restaurants in the World with the number one spot going to 'The Fat Duck' in Bray, Berkshire and its chef Englishman Heston Blumenthal. French restaurant's lagged in 6th place behind Australia's Tetsuya's (4) Spain (2), USA (3), England (5). British restaurants filled a phenomenal 4 places out of the first 10 spots!

And, as one more nail in the coffin carrying France to the back waters of culinary mediocrity, an English sparkling wine (Formally known as Champagne) from Chapel Down in Kent recently won the Gold Medal at the prestigious International Wine Challenge beating many of the top and expensive brands of French Champagne (Formally known as frogs piss).

So, as any true gastronome would say, a deux coups les bollocks President Jacques Chirac!

As usual President Jacques Chirac is talking out his trou du cul and I would like to offer a brief retort to his recent anti British outburst. As a renowned international chef from the old school of British cooking (under the tutelage of Chef de Cuisine Pat Coyle at the Battersea Park Staff Canteen Polytechnic, in those day's a hot bed of culinary art) I am especially expert to refute such diabolical affronts to British food and its indigenous cow underclass. Having myself climbed the heights of chefdom, winning Dunlop's converted 3 Stars for my authentic Pie and Mash main course with Jellied Ells on the side. I can with some authority discard to the dustbin of history the French myth that France is the epicentre of good food, cooking prowess and disease free bovine. Je dire les Bollocks!

During the Middle Ages, British cuisine was renown for its simplicity and fresh ingredients. It led the world in farming technique and was self sufficient in providing not only its own population with gastronomic delights like, haggis, bubble and squeak, black sausage and the pork pie, but also as a major exporter of preserved cow, dumplings and other mysterious culinary produce to the then known world. This self sufficiency in nosh was instrumental in enabling Britain to later colonise the world thereby providing humanity with the English language, an independent judiciary and property rights that led to what we now call democracy and the free world.

However, there was a slight decline in British culinary prowess during the late 18th century which was compounded by the effects of British rationing during two World Wars. On both occasions, France's military forces decided to discard their non repeating rifles and capitulate post haste to join Germany in forming the embryotic European Economic Community. Up until this time and into the 1970's, the food was so bad in France that Charles De Gaulle, who never got over Britain saving France in two world wars, relented his veto on British chefs and in 1973 allowed Britain to join the European community as a fully paid up member of the EEC. This paved the way for the French farmer to parasitically attach itself onto the British tax payers payroll enabling France once again to have someone else pay its way.

With Britain's inclusion in the EEC, Europe saw Britain once again defend world democracy by demolishing the Argentine military machine and its unelected junta when in 1982 the Argie Bargies were silly enough to invade the Falklands. This further continuation of British military success in unwinnable wars led to an influx of renowned British chefs being appointed Head de Cuisine in all the best Hotels in France and most other European hotels of any consequence. It was about this time that the French Government introduced the 'Saucier Francais' which enabled France to win back some respectability in the culinary world by concocting sauces as an art form to mask the taste of the shit they continue to serve up as food.

During the Mad Cow crises of the 1990's France banned British cows. This led to a general European up rising amongst the bovine population and European cows started to question their role in the world and the meaning of life. The French ban was a great step forward for British bovine culture as British mad cows strove to assimilate humanistically into every day life and blend into society as a whole. Great strides were made by the British farmer with many first time initiatives like, spa's, TV's and window curtains in the barns. With the lack of British beef in France the local veal producers went into melt down. French calves became very confident that they would now reach adulthood and so roamed the French countryside at night in gangs, smoking and drinking wine, mugging the local sheep and becoming very naughty and unruly. These 'Les punk cow's', as they were known in France, spent most days watching American hamburger commercials and conspiring to one day be free and to work for McDonalds. Fearing Les Revolution MkII, the French Government, as its wont in all things of moral consequence, capitulated and allowed British beef once more into the country.

In Britain today there is more interest in food than there has been since France last did anything that really mattered. To celebrity chefs like myself, the Two Fat Ladies and Jamie Oliver leading the drive towards raising the standard of British cuisine to further heights of deliciousness, Jacques Chirac's remarks are but water off a duck a' la orange and collectively we fart in his general direction! In 2005 British cuisine has reached new heights with 600 leading world food critics naming 14 British restaurant's among the 50 best restaurants in the World with the number one spot going to 'The Fat Duck' in Bray, Berkshire and its chef Englishman Heston Blumenthal. French restaurant's lagged in 6th place behind Australia's Tetsuya's (4) Spain (2), USA (3), England (5). British restaurants filled a phenomenal 4 places out of the first 10 spots!

And, as one more nail in the coffin carrying France to the back waters of culinary mediocrity, an English sparkling wine (Formally known as Champagne) from Chapel Down in Kent recently won the Gold Medal at the prestigious International Wine Challenge beating many of the top and expensive brands of French Champagne (Formally known as frogs piss).

So, as any true gastronome would say, a deux coups les bollocks President Jacques Chirac!

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